Space Warps Talk

Could this be an Einstein Ring?

  • JasonJason by JasonJason

    Is the outer band to wide to be one or should an Einstein Ring have a real thin outer ring?

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  • ElisabethB by ElisabethB moderator

    Not sure what you are saying here. The outer ring is probably the two spiral arms coming back and forming a ring.
    And this ring is indeed a bit too fuzzy for it to be a lens

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  • AlexandredOr by AlexandredOr

    I agree, ring spiral..

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  • JasonJason by JasonJason

    examples of Einstein rings

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    enter image description here

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  • Capella05 by Capella05 moderator

    Along with the other posters, I agree that it is a disturbed ring or spiral galaxy.

    If it were an Einstein ring it would be more likely to be blue in color and its appearance would be more clearly defined. The images we are classifying were taken using the CFHTLS telescope. The filters that have been used with this particular telescope (and the processing thereof), most lenses will appear blue in color, hence the color of the simulated lenses.

    Just posting images of other Einstein Rings, taken with different telescopes, to support your theory, will not make it an einstein ring 😃

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  • JasonJason by JasonJason

    Well if we were given coordinates as in AP I could find the galaxy and be happy with that answer, otherwise it's just a matter of opinion.

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  • Capella05 by Capella05 moderator in response to JasonJason's comment.

    Not necessarily 😃 It is a matter of scientific consensus.

    In this example, we have 3 users, independently coming to the conclusion that a particular object is not a Einstein ring, but rather a ringed galaxy - therefore the consensus is that it is a ringed galaxy. Also, the 3 users above, have over 18 combined years of experience classifying objects. Wouldn't you want to take advantage of using that experience to learn, instead of immediately dismissing them?

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  • JasonJason by JasonJason

    I see two moderators and one user, no SCIENTIST has commented. Who am I, that you dismiss my conclusion so readily, I am not a monkey trying to teach a computer to be better at picking out certain things. I am well read and hold a B.Sc. and have an I.Q. of 133. Otherwise not having coordinates to determine exactly what it is wont change my opinion one iota. Kindly stated.

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  • Capella05 by Capella05 moderator in response to JasonJason's comment.

    Both me and Els are part of the Science Team 😃

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  • Capella05 by Capella05 moderator

    And to reiterate, none of us dismissed your conclusion out of hand, we analysed the image, and using our experience, each of us came to our own conclusion. I am so sorry you feel that way 😃

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  • JasonJason by JasonJason

    How can I find that galaxy, I can't because no one thought that it would matter to anyone using the system if they decided they wished to find out more about the objects they are viewing, and causes problems like this. Being part of the science team couldn't you find out what the RA DEC of this image is?

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  • Thomas_J by Thomas_J moderator

    Hi Jason, this shouldn't be a problem. If enough people select this as a lens it will be examined further against it's location. We moderators have been involved with this project, as part of the science team, since its inception as we've spent many years examining images such as this. In this case I would agree that this is probably a disk galaxy. Your integrity is certainly not at question and your clicks are valuable so please continue to find and post anything you feel is important. 😃 Thomas

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  • JasonJason by JasonJason

    Thanks TJ

    I thought we were supposed to tag anything we felt could be something, otherwise we would just be tagging SIMs and become experts at that. But you do see the solution to a problem such as this would have been simply to allow us to have access to RA DEC information like in GZ and AP.

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  • drphilmarshall by drphilmarshall scientist, admin in response to JasonJason's comment.

    The thing about the CFHTLS is that that the images are much deeper than most of the other surveys in NED etc - this galaxy may not be catalogued anywhere else! So having the RA and Dec would only help you do one thing, and that's check against the literature to see if this was already a known lens. We're working on a collection of such things, for you to compare against - watch out for an email to the collaboration about that.

    Actually, what you really want is the FITS images of this system: not because the headers contain position information, but because they tell you how big the pixels are on the sky. Your lens hypothesis predicts that the ring you see is an Einstein Ring, and if you could measure its radius from the images, you could test your idea for plausibility. You'd also have to estimate the mass, or velocity dispersion, of the "lens" galaxy too - but we could help with that somehow (perhaps with a look up chart to convert brightness, size and colour into approximate galaxy mass).

    For now, until we have these resources available, we are stuck with mental modelling of the images! Many of the images you posted were taken with HST, and have smaller Eintein radii than this ring does. The large radius of this ring, as well as its fuzziness (see how your lensed rings are quite bright, and well defined?), make me think this is more likely to be a polar ring galaxy than a gravitational lens. But enabling people to test hypotheses like yours is important - thanks for reminding me to get on this! 😃

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